Apostles, Some more obserbations.

[John D. McDonald]

Apostles. Some more observations:

We have major problems in the church today, yet that is a part of growth.

Jesus taught; “You cannot put New Wine into Old Wine Skins”. Why because in doing so we end up destroying the wine and the wineskin. Yet that is exactly what the church today has done.

It is an interesting observation that those who in the ‘80’s & ‘90’s were satisfied with being Prophets are now calling themselves Apostles. What is with that?

If we don’t change the way we think and function we will destroy/put back God’s plans and purposes until a new generation arises that is not full of self but is full of God, as He did with Israel in the wilderness. Wiping out a generation who refuse to possess the land and raised up a new generation, whose memory were about 40 years in the wilderness, rather than the generations who remembered the ‘good things’ of Egypt in contrast to the ‘good things’ in the land of promise. If we want the ‘good things’ of the promise we will have to deal with Giants when we are only Grasshoppers, and we can't. Hmm how many times do we hear that today, "Things are so bad Jesus has to come and get us out, only He can fix things up."
When the truth is it is Him in Us that will fix things up.

‘Apostle’ is not a title, never was a title. However when we live in a mindset of insecurity, we look at titles as a way or getting recognition, establishing authority, manipulation How is that manipulation someone say's well if someone won't do what you say unless they call you apostle, then you are manipulating.

Titles are Pagan, not biblical.

Here is a list of titles we use in ‘church’, Pastor, Bishop, Elder, Prophet/Prophetess, Minister. Reverend, Doctor, on and on the list goes, just need some people with 'creative' thinking to think up some more.

Title goes in front of a name, thus hiding who one really is. Thus Apostle John, hides John, puts up a front. Function is after a name, it describes what you do. In the Hebrew world your name was who you are, thus Jacob, Abraham, David. In the Hebrew world, there was nothing dividing generations, hence no generation gaps. Titles are added to separate one from the other.

Let’s look how stupid it is. Do we go up to Fred, who is a plumber, and say Plumber Fred. But I carry a calling of an apostle, BUT so does Fred see God called him to be a Plumber. Oh1 but I have more education than Fred, is that so? You have more training in things that relate to your calling, but Fred has more education in his calling than you do.
You don’t know how to do things Fred does that’s why you call on Fred when you need a plumber, the same as he calls on you when he needs equipping.

I have a friend who I introduced to a pastor; my friend was burnt by the church, but felt the Lord drawing her there. I introduced her to him by his name. He accepted her and she went to him for counseling. After about three weeks she gave me a call, she was very upset and explained to me that he told her ‘unless you call me pastor, I can have no authority over you’. I replied that he was wrong, and the reason why. Of course
he was NEVER to have authority over her, that is unbiblical.

Authority is NOT established by titles, so calling someone by a title does not give that person any authority. Either one has authority or one does not. One speaks with authority.
A title, contrary to popular myth, does NOT give you, as the song goes R. E. S. P, E, C, T. Why do we have ministers who say ‘I am Apostle so and so…my wife is Pastor or Prophetess so and so.’ It all has to do with insecurity.

Respect comes out of who ‘you are ’ not ‘what you do’.

If one looks at the idea of ‘titles’ and the Kingdom, it is TOTALLY contrary to ‘Kingdom’. Titles produce walls.
As I said before, walls separate, them and us.

I preached a message a few years ago entitled, “ To Enter Or Not To Enter, That Is The Question. In it I gave Nine Reasons Why You Should Not Enter The Kingdom.

Here are a few.

1. You will have to grow up. Become a Son instead of acting like a child.
A son knows the heart of the Father and is about His will, not the Son’s ideas.

2. You will have to lay down your titles. Because titles divide & are pagan.
God is not impressed with titles, so why do we think others are.
Oh and any relationship gained by pretense will have to be maintained by pretense.

3. It will be a lonely life.

4. It will cost us everything.

If one is really an apostle, or any other calling in life, he/she has no need to have a title.

Paul did not say, I am Apostle Paul, but I am Paul, who is an apostle, called by God. In fact when someone says I am Apostle Bobby, I begin to think, Oh Really.

Apostles were the foundation of the church, hidden and underneath. Today they want to be the Steeple up on top and out in front so everyone can see them.

I challenge you, if you want to be kingdom minded, get rid of your title and watch how you begin to connect with people again, maybe you will build new relationships, based on who you are and not what you do.

......................think on that.

Copyright.
John McDonald 2009.
Apostolic Leadership.
Kingdom Apostolic Network
Kingdom Living International.

[Daniel Baumet]

Hi John

I agree , but for the fun of it look up in the dictionary the word Apostle and see if it fits them ?? lol
I seem to remember something about haveing a personal adgenda. Messianics here refer to the "Apostles " as God's Emmissaries" you know Mr Ambassador!
I agree so what ? If we truly Emessaries we should be a/ pomoting the King (God, Yeshua) the Country ( Glory, Heaven) and the benifits ( Free life and Health benefits) not the fact that we are the Emessary! More time should be spent on spreading the word than spreading the other stuff ( I promised Jonathon I would sensor my self! )
I attended a particular group that just loved to wallow in what name they wished to call them selves .. (Im Prophet sonso, Im Deacon such nsnutch) .. yet I do not recall one thing they evrr really did .. especially dear Evangelist whatshername .. who never went out ..
Is it not written of them they shall hear .. "I do not know you"

Amayn

[Daniel Baumet]

Ah yes thank You Meriam Webster for your on line dictionary

Apsotle :

1: one sent on a mission: as a: one of an authoritative New Testament group sent out to preach the gospel and made up especially of Christ's 12 original disciples and Paul b: the first prominent Christian missionary to a region or group
2 a: a person who initiates a great moral reform or who first advocates an important belief or system b: an ardent supporter : adherent
3: the highest ecclesiastical official in some church organizations
4: one of a Mormon administrative council of 12 men

Note 2: b lol

and again in cambridge:
2 FORMAL someone who strongly supports a particular belief or political movement:
an apostle of world peace/liberty

[Daniel Baumet]

Emissary:
1 : one designated as the agent of another : representative
2 : a secret agent
or in Cambridge Dictionaries on Line

emissary Show phonetics
noun [C] FORMAL
a person sent by one government or political leader to another to deliver messages or to take part in discussions:

[John D. McDonald]

Thanks Daniel.

Of course the other aspect is that 'apostles' are sent by the King, not the Kings representative, hence the
idea of 'prophets' going around and declaring this person is now an apostle, is junk, or as we would say in
Australia, tripe.

John

[Daniel Baumet]

Actualy if "apostles" are first advocates an important belief or system or are an ardent supporter : adherent do they need be sent by the king ? A door to door sales man is then by this definition an Apostle!
Emissaries are sent by "Kings" or Rilers! They may not agree with the message, but out of duty and a sense of loyalty , ( in ancient times under penelty of death) will deliver the message ..
Even then all one has to do is watch "300" to understand that even in the the foriegn kingdom, one may not be well recieved and put to death. ( yet still go)
These so called self proclaimed prophets and I had a show down here in Abby , my challenge still stands but I wont get into the pricve they are paying as it would lead to names , and this article is as good as they stand.

[Pathways Of Grace]

Rulers not rilers (hmmm, maybe you're right!).

[Daniel Baumet]

What ?

[Daniel Baumet]

Im innocent I tell ewe innocent